Dell - LOL

[robwhizz]

More Dell fun this week. Mother-in-law bought round her Inspiron a few days ago because it was really, really slow. It was brand new with no additional software installed yet.
They'd phoned Dell who performed a memory test over the phone and told her that the hardware is fine and it must be software issue - which is not Dell's problem. Happy to fix it for you though for £60 plus postage...

So, I boot it up and it is running like a dog. Horrid Dell quick launcher thingy, with massive badly drawn icons took up a quarter of screen and frankly added nothing of value. What's wrong with the start menu? Pinning apps to the task bar/start menu? Putting shortcuts on the desktop?...

Almost immediately a pop up tells me that 'Dell Support Centre has crashed because it's rubbish' (or something like that). Open up the resource monitor and I find that Windows media player networking is eating 70-100% CPU constantly and consuming 2.6GB of RAM. It only has 3GB, meaning virtual memory is getting thrashed too. Disk access is constantly 100%.
I've installed Windows 7 from scratch and had it pre-installed on laptops. I've never come across Media Player shafting a brand new machine that has NO media files on it.
As they won't be sharing any media on the laptop via Windows Media Player I stopped the service and set it to manual.
On reboot the service started again. Good chance then that some part of the Dell bloatware is calling it. Disabled the service.
'Software issues not Dell's problem?' This looks like a setup problem to me. Most likely something Dell has changed or configured in the OS, or 3rd party software pre-installed by Dell. Either way, very likely Dell's problem.
(I'm sure there is a way to get to the bottom of the problem and correct it, but as it won't be used there is no point wasting my time in it. I'll just keep the service disabled).

Another re-boot and the system is still slow. I remove some of the hideous Dell software (Dell Support Centre still crashing every five minutes, but I'll left that in to see what happens).

Resource monitor is now showing 50-60% CPU burn constantly, but at least RAM and Disk are back to normal. DPC/System interrupts is the culprit, which is a pain because it makes harder work to diagnose.

Installed the Development Tools from the Win7 SDK to do a trace. With a bit of tracing and digging I found, surprise surprise, Dell Support Centre and McAfee to be the cause. Uninstalled both and the system now runs sweet as a nut.

'Software issues not Dell's problem?' It was their support centre software and McAfee which they pre-install causing problems. Again, Dell's fault entirely.

My inlaws bought through Dell on the assumption that not being technical they'd have good support. Instead, Dell sent them a crippled machine and refused to do anything about it.
Add in the fact they paid something around £350 for a Celeron, 3GB RAM, ugly looking laptop with very poor keyboard and twice as thick as mine which is an Asus, bought in a sale for £350 with an i3, 4GB and nice keyboard. It's only a basic laptop but literally knocks the socks of the Dell. Absolutely bloody rip off.
I wouldn't touch Dell with a 10ft barge pole now.

Rant over.

[Steve Lampkins]

LOL

No laughing matter.

Rant over.

Leave that to the reader to determine.


4/10, see familychoice for remedial ranting lessons.

[familychoice]

4/10, see familychoice for remedial ranting lessons.

I'll teach Rob how to do a decent rant if he clears the excess jelly from my Dell PC.

[Jem]

I like Dell but the first thing I do with a new machine is remove anything and everything that's pre-bundled. I don't understand how they (and other, similar companies) get away with it to be honest... it's hardly different to Microsoft bunding WMP, IE etc in their operating system which they got into deep doodoo for.

[sarahA]

Dell home support doesn't sound to be good. I've never had a prob then again I get business support, plus, I do the same as Jem, either tidy up the install or reinstall myself. Easier when you know how obviously.

Rob, I'm surprised your in-laws didn't come to you for advice first? Dells, IMO, are only good once you get past the cheap end.

[sickpuppy]

I'll teach Rob how to do a decent rant if he clears the excess jelly from my Dell PC.

How much jelly can you put in a Dell before you have an excess of it?

[familychoice]

I'll teach Rob how to do a decent rant if he clears the excess jelly from my Dell PC.

How much jelly can you put in a Dell before you have an excess of it?

1.2gb

[Steve Lampkins]

Great Scott!

[robwhizz]

Dell home support doesn't sound to be good. I've never had a prob then again I get business support, plus, I do the same as Jem, either tidy up the install or reinstall myself. Easier when you know how obviously.

Rob, I'm surprised your in-laws didn't come to you for advice first? Dells, IMO, are only good once you get past the cheap end.

I think they try not to bother me because I'm busy at work etc. (but that does tend to cause more problems later).

To be honest I've used and re-furbished many Dells over the years and always found the Desktops fairly robust. Lower end is pretty limited with cut down hardware and less scope to upgrade or replace, but generally fairly solid.
I run a Dell server at work as I just didn't have the time to build something from scratch, and aside from the primary partition being way too small, it's been a very good buy.
Laptops are a different story, though. Never seen a top end one, but the lower ends I've had experience with are dire, and support even worse.

I'll teach Rob how to do a decent rant if he clears the excess jelly from my Dell PC.

How much jelly can you put in a Dell before you have an excess of it?

1.2gb

You mean 1.2 gigaFLOPS?

[Steve Lampkins]

Now you're just trifling.

[suedenem]

I like Dell but the first thing I do with a new machine is remove anything and everything that's pre-bundled. I don't understand how they (and other, similar companies) get away with it to be honest... it's hardly different to Microsoft bunding WMP, IE etc in their operating system which they got into deep doodoo for.

It's different because the Dell apps, whilst a PITA, are individually installed, whereas MSIE, WMP etc were integral parts of the operating system.

Microsoft's approach meant that its products were always part of a Windows install, whether the user liked it or not, which is anti-competitive.  There is an element of choice when it comes to buying a Dell - they sell commoditised products - but Windows has become a de facto standard, which meant that MS was abusing their dominance in the OS field to eliminate competitors in other fields such as browsers.

[Mr Anderson]

I've never had too many issues with Dell laptops*, and I've owned a few. Though I've always gone for Latitudes rather than the lower specced Inspirons - but mid-range rather than top end, and they've always performed pretty well.

* The issues I've had have included needing to remove pre-installed software (which I've had to do with every laptop I've owned, regardless of make), flimsy keyboards (catch a key wrong and they'd sometimes flip off), and dodgy touch pad drives leading to cursor freezes, which is the one issue that got me annoyed.

Saying that, I've switched away from Dells as I needed something better specced than I previously had and Dell were over priced, so I got an MSI laptop from Overclockers which is great, or it was until the touch pad failed. unlike the issues I had with Dell touch pads it was a hardware rather than a driver issue and needed to be repaired under warranty. The job took 18 minutes for them to do, but over 8 weeks for them to get my laptop back to me. So that makes my Dell issues seem that less frustrating as I was always able to fix it myself (sometimes needed a sys restore, sometimes a driver reinstall, and oddly sometimes putting into my dock and rebooting).

[sarahA]

Laptops are a different story, though. Never seen a top end one, but the lower ends I've had experience with are dire, and support even worse.

Sorry I meant Laptops. I always forget they sell desktops (despite us having a low priced one sitting upstairs as our file server!), but yes, those seem fine at the cheap end of the market.

[familychoice]

I'm on my third Dell desktop, and overall I've been impressed with their reliability and longevity. The only issue I had was with the second, which had a hard drive failure after 3 years continual use. Can't complain about that really, though obviously I did. Only issue with the new one are the characters rubbing off the keyboard.

Mrs FC's Inspiron laptop is another thing completely though, it's cheap and nasty and the keyboard failed after a couple of weeks.

I keep thinking about moving from Dell (partly because I used to work for them and it pains me to give them my money), but it never seems to work out. I had an Evesham desktop that died after a year (a client and a friend both had the same machine, and both theirs died after a year too - around the time the company went bust..), and had a brief return visit to Apple that turned into a bit of a shocker. My HP laptop hasn't been that great either.

I thought about putting my own machine together until I totted up the cost of the components and compared it to the cost of a prebuilt Dell. Then I hear stories like Mr A's and realise there are worse companies out there.

I think I keep going back to Dell for the same reasons I use Cubecart - they're good value, reasonably reliable and slightly less crap than the competition. I wouldn't buy one of their laptops though. When my HP gives up the ghost I might wander back to Macbook territory - I'm a sucker for shiny things.

[Jem]

It's different because the Dell apps, whilst a PITA, are individually installed, whereas MSIE, WMP etc were integral parts of the operating system.

Microsoft's approach meant that its products were always part of a Windows install, whether the user liked it or not, which is anti-competitive.  There is an element of choice when it comes to buying a Dell - they sell commoditised products - but Windows has become a de facto standard, which meant that MS was abusing their dominance in the OS field to eliminate competitors in other fields such as browsers.

I know that, but put it into context with users like Rob's in-laws who don't have a clue what and where something is installed, they just think they're getting a nifty bargain with all the extra software. Using ignorance to sucker people in to something they didn't necessarily want.

[sarahA]

I thought about putting my own machine together until I totted up the cost of the components and compared it to the cost of a prebuilt Dell. Then I hear stories like Mr A's and realise there are worse companies out there.

If you go for another dell my advice is avoid Inspirion (they're okay but I think they're more for rare, standard usage ie. checking email and a bit of online stuff, maybe the occasional letter). I've had two latitudes, the first bought in 2002 and whilst I stopped using it in 2007 (so 4.5 yrs worth of use), my brother took it and continued to use it with the use of a cooling tray, as the fans had failed, and has only stopped now because the power socket needs fixing at a cost of £80.

My current laptop is another latitude, it'll be 5 years old in May and besides needing a format and good clean out, it's doing fine. I've always had business warranty with both my laptops, I guess you spend a little more and suddenly you get a good deal (usually £90 for 3 years next day on site warranty), and I've used it a couple of times and had no complaints. So I would also say, buy the laptop via the small business section rather than the home user. You'll be treated like a business and, as they'll potentially what you to spend more with them, they'll give you better support.

I'll probably seriously consider Dell again for my replacement laptop when I need one.

[Jem]

^ Karl's Inspiron is about 15 years old and still going strong.

[Steve Lampkins]

That's Inspirontional.






need more coffee

[familychoice]

So I would also say, buy the laptop via the small business section rather than the home user. You'll be treated like a business and, as they'll potentially what you to spend more with them, they'll give you better support.

The reason I didn't get a Dell laptop was they didn't really have the spec I was looking for at the time. The closest was their (home user) XPS range but it was almost twice the price of the HP. The HP is built like a tank - no complaints there - but it needs reformatting and setting up again as it's very unreliable, and the battery only lasts about half an hour.

I think I'm down as a business customer for the desktop - but usually I find their business range less inspiring for graphic work.

I think (if we can afford it when the time comes around) I'd like to go for another Macbook Pro, but pick one without the additional graphics card/electric bar fire, and as I won't be using it much for design work (the previous purchase was supposed to be a desktop replacement) then the OS/mouse acceleration won't wind me up. Depends on our finances though, and I'll have to put up with the HP for at least another year.

Mrs FC just wanted something cheap and cheerful, so the Inspiron, being cheap and miserable almost fitted the bill.

^ Karl's Inspiron is about 15 years old and still going strong.

Some of the old gear was much better built than the new stuff. The new Inspirons are about as tactile as an old crisp packet.

[Dom]

That's why I always build my own machine. Bit harder to build a laptop, mind you. Which is why I always get a desktop.

I don't understand why manufacturers bundle their computers with gigs of bloatware either; it's not like anyone uses it. Everyone I know uninstalls all that they can when they get a new PC, and the ones that don't invariably have some kind of problem the minute they turn the thing on.

[suedenem]

I don't understand why manufacturers bundle their computers with gigs of bloatware either; it's not like anyone uses it. Everyone I know uninstalls all that they can when they get a new PC, and the ones that don't invariably have some kind of problem the minute they turn the thing on.

Because the software houses pay them to add trialware/lite versions/sponsored programs - enough people must use them (and upgrade) to make it worthwhile, otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it.  They can increase their margins without charging the punter extra; low price expectations of the consumer mean that it's not worth competing on quality here.

It's an inevitable consequence of the commoditised nature of the low-medium end of the PC market.  Would you rather pay £100 extra, or spend a couple of hours de-cluttering?

[familychoice]

I did try to reason with the Dell salesperson when I ordered this PC, and requested that they didn't install any additional bloatware. He said they couldn't do this, so I explained that it'd save them time/money not adding the extra crap which I'd take off anyway....but it was like trying to reason with a shoe.

[suedenem]

I did try to reason with the Dell salesperson when I ordered this PC, and requested that they didn't install any additional bloatware. He said they couldn't do this, so I explained that it'd save them time/money not adding the extra crap which I'd take off anyway....but it was like trying to reason with a shoe.

Nope, it'll take longer and cost more not to put it on.  Dell runs like a factory, and interruptions and bespoke requests add to the cost.

[Steve Lampkins]

Yeah, it's probably just an image, rather than an installation.

[sarahA]

^ Karl's Inspiron is about 15 years old and still going strong.

At 15 years old I'm guessing it didn't cost £300 though? My first Dell I got at £2400, and it wasn't really customised either. Laptops then started to become popular, prices dropped and I bought a second Dell for my brother's GF (working for me at the time) which was an inspiron for £700, the cheapest at the time (2003). That lasted for about 5-6 years to be fair. My Mum's own Inspiron was bought in 2006 and is still going, just. If you know how to look after it, upgrade it, reformat or reset to factory settings, then you can probably keep them going longer, but for 8-10 hr daily usage I don't think they'd keep you happy for longer than a year or so, but then again, at £300 I would only expect about 18 months of use out of it anyway!

[Rosco]

I buy Dell desktops for work, but rarely use them now for laptops... as mentioned the reasonably priced models (e.g. Inspirons) are quite flimsy builds.  Most recently I've got Acer laptops as they give better bang-for-buck and we've always had a decent life out of them (5+ years for general office work)

Dell's business support is great tho, and that's why all of our main office's PCs and server are Dells.  PowerEdge servers and Optiplex desktops are pretty robust, and buying direct from Dell business means no additional warranty registrations are required... just phone them up and they already know the purchase date and warranty cover... then they sort your problem.  After that, somebody follows up with an appropriate amount of bum-licking to ensure you are satisfied with the resolution.

Last week I ordered two Optiplex desktops.  Our account manager put together a price of £300 (plus £70 for a 21" wide screen TFT if required) for each as the model was about to go end-of-line.  By the time I accepted the quote/spec the model had already went out of stock.  They gave me the next model up for around the same price, but the change of model required them (on their building/speccing software) to opt-in an optical drive, instead of it being include by default and the account manager removing it.  So I got two machines with no DVD drives (which were needed).  I phoned, and got somebody based two miles up the road, they admitted they'd buggered up, explained how they'd buggered up, apologised, and sent out two drives which I had offered to install myself.  I was emailed at every stage of the dispatch and then got the bum-licking emails to check I was satisfied.

I was.  They buggered up, but they made it right immediately.  That's another reason I'll keep using them... but only as a business customer.  I've tried to sort a mate's Dell, bought from the Home division.... and spent several one-hour calls on the phone to India speaking to script-reading support agents named "George", "Kevin" and "Gary" (aye, right!)

[Rosco]

P.S.) Have moved this to Hardware & Software

[familychoice]

calls on the phone to India speaking to script-reading support agents

I still remember the call we had from 'customer care', India, after we'd complained about the payment cock-up for Mrs FC's Inspiron. It was supposed to be a placatory 'we're sorry for screwing up the payment and threatening to send in the bailiffs' call from Dell, but the woman on the phone seemed to think that shouting at me was the best way to smooth things over. After asking her, politely, to please refrain from shouting at me at least four times I eventually had to put the phone down on her.

Even amongst the numerous bad experiences I've had with overseas phone support this stands out as a staggering event.

I'll make sure I go for the business option if I buy from Dell again.

[Jem]

Because the software houses pay them to add trialware/lite versions/sponsored programs - enough people must use them (and upgrade) to make it worthwhile, otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it.  They can increase their margins without charging the punter extra; low price expectations of the consumer mean that it's not worth competing on quality here.

Exactly - and how many of these people are paying for them because they believe it's the best solution, and how many just because that software was installed?

I think we're both singing from the same hymn sheet here, albeit I clearly think it's more of a problem/pain in the ass than you do.

[suedenem]

Because the software houses pay them to add trialware/lite versions/sponsored programs - enough people must use them (and upgrade) to make it worthwhile, otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it.  They can increase their margins without charging the punter extra; low price expectations of the consumer mean that it's not worth competing on quality here.

Exactly - and how many of these people are paying for them because they believe it's the best solution, and how many just because that software was installed?

I think we're both singing from the same hymn sheet here, albeit I clearly think it's more of a problem/pain in the ass than you do.

The differences are that MS tied MSIE/WMP so closely into the OS that it was deemed anti-competitive, and that MS enjoyed a monopoly position in the OS market which it used to gain a monopoly in the browser & media player markets. 

Neither is true of Dell; the bloat that Dell installs is generally easy to remove via the control panel, and it operates in a highly competitive marketplace.  Don't like removing or leaving the crap they install?  Pay that bit extra for an Apple or a custom-build from a smaller manufacturer.