Your Job

[Dom]

OK, so I recently had my annual review at my job (as did everyone in our office) and as per usual, the topic of salaries came up, and again as per usual, most people think they weren't earning enough (myself included).

The answer to these concerns (at least in my case) was to "take into consideration the 'soft benefits' that come with the job", such as the nice working environment, and other things.

Seeing as this is my first full-time job since leaving university, I was wondering just how important the 'soft benefits' of your job are to you. Not having any other job to compare this one too, I just assumed (or didn't really give any thought at all into it) that most offices had reasonable heating/air-con, space enough to work comfortably, and a good attitude towards worker comfort and health and safety. But am I wrong?

I know you can get nightmare jobs that shove some workers, particularly IT guys, away into little cupboards out of the way, but mostly I imagined that office environments are all pretty much the same.

So what do you consider the most important aspect of your job? The amount you earn, or something else? Get voting people!

[inkworm]

Can't really quantify what I do or why in a simple poll, there are a number of factors, getting books or magazines with my work in each month is damn cool, drawing aeroplanes day in day out doesn't get boring as it's something I've done on and off since I was a kid. Being self employed means flexible hours and spending time with junior before she starts school during the day is great. Oh and the 30 second commute is handy.

[SAMMo_0]

MONEH

It's a combination of things, but things like 'a nice place to work' should be a given, not a 'soft benefit'. 'Soft benefits' should be things like handjobs, free tangerines, receptionist with a nice rack, bacon-scented chairs etc.

If you work with douchebags and are very stressed, it's sometimes made up for by earning a mint, but it depends on the sort of person you are. I took the path of getting a job where the people are nice, the responsibility and workload is minimal, and the salary massive. Definitely recommend it.

[familychoice]

Same as Inkworm really. No commute and having an extra hour with FC Jnr. before he goes to nursery.

Most of the work itself isn't particularly well paid, there's no security, or career prospects, or pension, and the majority of my clients are horrible. Not much job satisfaction as most of my lovely designs get trashed by clients who obviously have better design skills than I have and/or mess up the sleek consistency I created for their company corporate image by inserting inappropriate font and layout styles into their updatable pages.

However, I can brush all of the above aside when the mornings become dark, cold, and wet as I remind myself (checking my email, radio on with a nice cup of tea) what commuting on winter mornings used to be like.

I sometimes miss working in an office with a load of other designers/developers, and I've made some great mates in the past in some of the companies I've worked in. But then I've also worked with some complete tossers so maybe working alone is the safest bet as you never know what you're going to get.

[Dom]

MONEH

It's a combination of things, but things like 'a nice place to work' should be a given, not a 'soft benefit'. 'Soft benefits' should be things like handjobs, free tangerines, receptionist with a nice rack, bacon-scented chairs etc.

If you work with douchebags and are very stressed, it's sometimes made up for by earning a mint, but it depends on the sort of person you are. I took the path of getting a job where the people are nice, the responsibility and workload is minimal, and the salary massive. Definitely recommend it.

swine. I think our chairs are bacon-scented, though, but not through choice.

But yeah, as I say, I just figured having a "nice place to work" was standard, in that it should be clean and tidy, warm (or cool) enough to work (or we should at least be able to strip off at the merest hint of sunshine... whatever) and that the people didn't act like arseholes.

Apparently those things are "percs of a good job", and not something that normal, pleasant human beings are like. Who knew?

[Dom]

Lousy, self-employed folks!

Being self-employed would be amazing, but I'm not sure I'd be ready to take on the responsibility of creating my own work. I like the fact that I turn up, do a job, and some green ends up in my bank at the end of the month. (I'll admit that I've always wanted to work for myself though.)

I guess the point of the poll was to help me decide whether I'm being fobbed off with PR drivel, or whether there really is some merit to what he was saying about there being "more to a good job than how much you earn". Of course that's true, but how much more there is would depend on what sort of person you are, and from what I'm reading, being self-employed is where it's at.

[inkworm]

Most of the work itself isn't particularly well paid, there's no security, or career prospects, or pension

You forgot to mention chasing for payments all the time, doing your own admin, working evenings/weekends, making your own tea, having to keep the work place tidy yourself, some of the work dos I've gone to since being self employed are really crap, no one else shows up!

I would argue there are some career prospects depending on how pushy, motivated or lucky you are. Oh and I get to listen to what I want all day long*. Wouldn't change it for anything.

*except when little inky is about and wants to watch cebeebies or listen to something that isn't proper music.

[robwhizz]

I can't vote as there isn't one thing you can put higher than everything else, it's more like a matrix system where one area affects the next.

I agree with Sammo, a nice place of work should be a given - although in many places it's not. It's amazing how many companies (esp. public sector) that think the best way to ensure productivity is to rule with an iron fist, be completely inflexible, ban everything and reduce employee moral to zero. Oh, and pay crap money.

For me job satisfaction is very important in relation to wages. I'd rather do a job I enjoy for less pay, but I won't work for peanuts just to get that.

[suedenem]

Hardly anybody thinks that they're getting what they're worth.  

Are you a 'fee earner' - i.e. does you company bill out for your time?  If so, consider whether your salary reflects what you bring into the company (less overheads - office rental, tools/IT, cost of employing non-fee earning staff and so on).  Chances are that your actual salary is closer to what you'd deem acceptable considering all the above.

If you still think you're getting a raw deal, would the job market let you dictate a higher salary elsewhere?  Times are tough at the moment.  Try asking your employer to give you an effective pay rise (even if it's not reflected in your take home pay).  A subsidised staff canteen or mobile phone can be tax efficient/cash flow friendly ways of providing a better overall package (oo-er).

As for the 'soft' benefits, try putting a value on them.  If the benefits were taken away, would you have to pay out of your own pocket?  

If you want a slightly more theoretical answer to your question, go and read up on Maslow's heirarchy of needs...

[Dom]

Heh, it's not just a case of me thinking I'm not paid quite enough, it's that the company isn't even paying me what they said I'm worth. At least, not yet. Come April, they're having a pay review, in which everyone's salary will be looked at based on their own performance. My manager actually agrees with me that I'm worth the money I'm asking for (which didn't come as a surprise seeing as I put together War and Peace about why I thought I was worth that much) so that looks quite promising.

I'm not a fee earner as you put it, but I'm the only web developer in the company, and the systems I've built (on my own) are used by our biggest customer. Without blowing my own trumpet, the company would be screwed without me. There are a million other reasons why I'm not happy about my current salary, such as having to do the job of two people because they won't replace the other developer that left, but I've explained all that to the company in my recent review.

In terms of the 'soft benefits' (which was the phrase that my manager used - I've no idea what he means) I don't think there are all that many, aside from having a clean, comfortable workplace, fairly friendly people, and lots of groups and meetings to do with company morale, health and safety, and all that lovely guff.

I'm going to take a look at that Maslow's hierarchy of needs though.

[Jem]

I've just had my annual review this morning, what a coincidence :p

I definitely don't stay where I am for the money. I am underpaid by a factor of about £5k based on similar jobs in the area. However, I stay because I love the people I work with and the general atmosphere. I have a lot of respect for my boss and the way he chooses to manage. I know that if something cocks up with Isabel's childcare or w/e I can go and get things sorted / leave early / come in late and not be penalised for it. I work different hours than my colleagues to fit better around Isabel's day. I work a 4 day week with the option of doing Fridays if I need the money (or the company needs my time). It may sound all flowers and fairies and that I'm being naive, but that honestly means more to me than a few grand.

[Dom]

I can understand that where a little kiddiewink is involved, but I'm not responsible for anyone but myself, so thankfully I don't have much of a need for flexi-time schemes or anything like that. I'd say I'm being underpaid by four or five thousand, going on the salaries of other developers I know across the country, but if you look at sites like Monster and Reed (that give you rundowns of average salaries, region by region) then I could be earning a lot more.

There are good points to working here, such as it being very local to me, but one of the reasons for the salaries being what they are was that "this company is never going to be a top payer". What's that supposed to mean? I get that different regions of the country differ in salaries for the same jobs etc, but if the work that you (and you alone) do for the company is critical to them staying in business; and you're the only one that can do it; and despite their efforts to recruit a second developer, they still haven't... then surely they should be paying in accordance with that, and not what they think they can get away with.

I just get the feeling that the IT department in general gets that stereotypical look of "urgh, nerds" from a lot of other people in the company, including the directors (much as they'd like to convey a professional image) and as a result, the salaries of myself, and particularly the IT support guys, isn't proportional to the responsibilities that we have.

Overworked and under-appreciated is what's going on I think.

[Jem]

Okaaaaaaaay.. so just looked up PHP dev jobs in my area and it turns I'm being underpaid by more than I thought.

Dom, what have you started?

[Dom]

Oh yeah, those job-by-job, region-by-region charts can break your spirits in no time!

The silly thing is, our company recently hired an external auditing company to "evaluate" every role in the company to come to a standard salary for each role. This was to make sure that everyone in a particular role was earning roughly the same amount (between -10% and +10% of the average that they decided upon) depending on how good they are at their job.

I don't know how they arrived at the figure they did for a web developer with my experience, skills, and responsibility, but the salaries that Monster and Reed give are about £10k higher lol. I know that I'd never get that by working here, but I'd be happy with just a £3k rise. And they can't exactly argue with the figures shown from websites that advertise tens of thousands of jobs each week.

[rutty]

The older I get the less important salary is, although it is important to maintain our lifestyle (and pay our mortgage).

I won't take a job I'll dislike just because it pays well, and I won't take a job that requires lots of travel for long periods. Other factors are more important. I'm currently working as a software tester, my pay is adequate and I have a 15 minute commute. The company I work for a quite large but seem to understand the concepts of "job enablement" and methods of motivation other than remuneration. I'd like more money, but that's not as important as job satisfaction, proximity to home and any other number of factors.

[suedenem]

There are good points to working here, such as it being very local to me, but one of the reasons for the salaries being what they are was that "this company is never going to be a top payer". What's that supposed to mean? I get that different regions of the country differ in salaries for the same jobs etc, but if the work that you (and you alone) do for the company is critical to them staying in business; and you're the only one that can do it; and despite their efforts to recruit a second developer, they still haven't... then surely they should be paying in accordance with that, and not what they think they can get away with.

The problem is that you're not the only 'indispensable' employee (no matter how it might seem at any given point!).  Without the sales team there would be no new business or growth, the accounts team get ongoing work, admin and payroll support make sure that clients pay and you get paid at the end of the month and so on.  You'd even miss those pesky seagull middle managers if they left.

As worthwhile as you might be, don't delude yourself that the company would go under without you.  Almost everyone is replaceable - it's the work that you do which is essential, not you per se.  Your bosses don't want the hassle and cost of replacing you (advertising for a new employee, training them up etc) though, and that's where you might have a bit of haggling room.

[Dom]

The problem is that you're not the only 'indispensable' employee (no matter how it might seem at any given point!).  Without the sales team there would be no new business or growth, the accounts team get ongoing work, admin and payroll support make sure that clients pay and you get paid at the end of the month and so on.  You'd even miss those pesky seagull middle managers if they left.

As worthwhile as you might be, don't delude yourself that the company would go under without you.  Almost everyone is replaceable - it's the work that you do which is essential, not you per se.  Your bosses don't want the hassle and cost of replacing you (advertising for a new employee, training them up etc) though, and that's where you might have a bit of haggling room.

Oh definitely, and I don't want to seem as though I'm the be-all and end-all of the company, and I agree that there are plenty of other people that the company would struggle to make do without. But there are a couple of things that make my situation a little different.

Firstly, I'm the only web developer in the company. My manager has past experience with web development, but having been a manager for some time now, he's not had as much hands-on experience as I have for a number of years, and is a little rusty when it comes to the nitty-gritty. (This was proved a couple of weeks ago actually, when he was on call and ran into a problem with a system he hadn't built, and had trouble working out how it worked despite extensive documentation written to his specifications). Everyone else in the company has at least one counterpart doing the same job as them (except for the big cheeses, like Directors). This means that for every other position in the company, there is more than one person who can do the job should someone leave/fall ill/turn into Dr Evil. But that's not the case with me.

The second thing is that I was originally hired as a second developer to help the first developer who'd been here some time when I arrived. This was because the company was moving more and more towards web-based solutions and they needed an extra pair of hands to take on the extra work. Two years down the line, and the first developer left the company, leaving me to take on his workload temporarily.

This "temporary" situation started two and half years ago, and despite numerous attempts to hire a second person, we've never successfully found anyone. I suspect it's because we're not offering the sort of salary we need to to get someone good enough to do the job, but whatever the reason, I know they'd struggle to replace me if I left, as I've seen them struggling to hire a junior, let alone a (dare I say it) senior. Or someone with some experience/education, at least.

It got to the point where I was asked to simplify and thoroughly document all of my work procedures (by which he meant write down all of things someone would otherwise be taught in universities and training courses) so that, and I quote, "any old monkey could do it.... no really, I seriously mean I want an orang-utan could do be able to do it". I felt like I was documenting myself right out of a job, and he said to me that the situation was dire enough to warrant hiring a school-leaver (not even a uni grad doing a computing-related course) and that they can do all the small-time monkey work. Again, we couldn't even secure an enthusiastic school leaver right when the kids were all finishing their exams and leaving school.

So you'll forgive me if I'm slightly pessimistic when I think they might struggle to get someone to replace me if I left or whatever. I don't exactly live in a big town or anything, and the locals have a less-than-average enthusiasm for going to work as it is.

I'm all for going above and beyond for a company, especially if you like what you do, but when the "above and beyond" starts to become expected of you as standard, and the money doesn't go up accordingly, I don't think that's fair.

I've also got a million criticisms of the external auditing company that we used to evaluate each role in the company, but don't even get me started on that.

[familychoice]

You forgot to mention chasing for payments all the time, doing your own admin, working evenings/weekends, making your own tea, having to keep the work place tidy yourself, some of the work dos I've gone to since being self employed are really crap, no one else shows up!

Oh yeah, all that's a total drag. I think I'm happy with the self-employment bit - I don't mind sacrificing a few evenings and weekends to catch up on the admin bits in return for all the benefits....I think with me it's the industry itself that's wearing me down. A lot of the time I end up having to work with the most appalling people and then when you think you've finally got shot of them the system you used for their website gets hacked and you end up working for them all over again for free whilst being used as a verbal punchbag.

I've found self-employed web work to be exceptionally unrewarding in almost every way. I guess it'd be eas9ier if I was part of a larger company and there were others to share the scathing emails with and to pass on the invoice chasing.

That's why I'm trying to scale it down as a business and stick to freelance work. What I really want to do is more illustration work - I won't be doing planes or military stuff though so I wouldn't be competition

[inkworm]

That's why I'm trying to scale it down as a business and stick to freelance work. What I really want to do is more illustration work - I won't be doing planes or military stuff though so I wouldn't be competition

Sounds like my past, doing all sorts of stuff, bit of indesign, logos, web the whole shebang. But like you I never really enjoyed it as much as other seem to, all the back and forth changes and revisions and meetings, tried scaling it all back over the last few years but still did enough to pay the bills, just very lucky that I'm now just drawing planes and nowt else. Great thing is they are either historically and technically accurate or they are not. Plus with all the deadlines there isn't time to keep making changes or worry about it being hacked

Good luck getting to do just the illustrations you want, sure it'll work out and hopefully you won't have to wait too long.

[familychoice]

That's why I'm trying to scale it down as a business and stick to freelance work. What I really want to do is more illustration work - I won't be doing planes or military stuff though so I wouldn't be competition

Sounds like my past, doing all sorts of stuff, bit of indesign, logos, web the whole shebang. But like you I never really enjoyed it as much as other seem to, all the back and forth changes and revisions and meetings, tried scaling it all back over the last few years but still did enough to pay the bills, just very lucky that I'm now just drawing planes and nowt else. Great thing is they are either historically and technically accurate or they are not. Plus with all the deadlines there isn't time to keep making changes or worry about it being hacked

Good luck getting to do just the illustrations you want, sure it'll work out and hopefully you won't have to wait too long.

Thanks I enjoy designing and have been doing it a long time now, but like you say it's all the changes and messing about I have to go through to end up with something a whole world away from my original design. Then I have to chase them up for payment, and then a few months later listen to them complaining that the site isn't bringing in the business/traffic they hoped*

* Because they completely ignored my advice and 20 years worth of experience.

I've been painting and doing bits of illustration as a hobby for years now, so it's time to put a portfolio together and see if I can get some work in. Problem is I'm my worst critic, at the moment it's looking pretty sparse as I'm still struggling to find anything good enough to put in it! I'll still carry on with any decent work that comes in, or freelance stuff. My ideal would be to split my time equally between both.

Anyway, back to the original thing - for me the most important part of a job, for me, after paying the bills, is satisfaction and a feeling of pride in what I've produced.

[Tony]

For me, it's pretty much doing what I enjoy doing - as long as I can pay the bills and have some beer money, and at the moment, that's where I am.

[Jeep Stone]

I've been able to walk to work for the last decade. Wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, now having a second child who needs extra help, it's invaluable. My marriage would have disintegrated a long time ago if I'd not be able to be there for my wife (10 mins and I'm home).

[Dom]

Yeah since I moved into the flat, I'm a 20-minute walk away from work, which I love. More exercise and fresh air each day is a benefit. The thing that made me chuckle, though, is that in my review last week, my manager used that as a "perk of the job", and I was left thinking, "hang on a minute, I spent four and a half years commuting to work, and then I moved house to be closer to the job... how is that a perk?"

Still, I can honestly say that when it's bright and sunny outside, I actually like getting up in the mornings and walking to work.

[Mantis]

For me I am looking for something that keeps me interested, pure money does not do it for me in the way that it once did. I suppose that is to do with having a fairly comfortable lifestyle and not being too materialistic (anymore).

The work I do is interesting and has me researching the current law of property. I have also applied for some governance roles in local housing associations and considered applying for a position on the board of a Port Authority these would occupy a few days a year but would not be rewarding in pure financial terms.

[sickpuppy]

"perk of the job"

For your boss here are a list of perks
Medical insurance
Company cars
Free food/drink in the kitchen
Company parties with free bars
Discounts for hardware/software

The following are not perks
A desk
A computer
Holidays
Only a few hours of unpaid overtime a month
Health and safety
Sanitation
Toilets
A lunch break
Getting paid
Being near your home

[Shirker]

I'd argue 'being near your home' can sit in both camps. I lived 50+ miles away from my job for some 15 years because the pay was good and I liked working there. The travel was therefore an easy price to pay so we could live where we wanted as well.

[Jem]

I walk to work but it's not the same when you have to because you don't drive

[suedenem]

Oh definitely, and I don't want to seem as though I'm the be-all and end-all of the company, and I agree that there are plenty of other people that the company would struggle to make do without. But there are a couple of things that make my situation a little different.

Firstly, I'm the only web developer in the company. My manager has past experience with web development, but having been a manager for some time now, he's not had as much hands-on experience as I have for a number of years, and is a little rusty when it comes to the nitty-gritty. (This was proved a couple of weeks ago actually, when he was on call and ran into a problem with a system he hadn't built, and had trouble working out how it worked despite extensive documentation written to his specifications). Everyone else in the company has at least one counterpart doing the same job as them (except for the big cheeses, like Directors). This means that for every other position in the company, there is more than one person who can do the job should someone leave/fall ill/turn into Dr Evil. But that's not the case with me.

The second thing is that I was originally hired as a second developer to help the first developer who'd been here some time when I arrived. This was because the company was moving more and more towards web-based solutions and they needed an extra pair of hands to take on the extra work. Two years down the line, and the first developer left the company, leaving me to take on his workload temporarily.

This "temporary" situation started two and half years ago, and despite numerous attempts to hire a second person, we've never successfully found anyone. I suspect it's because we're not offering the sort of salary we need to to get someone good enough to do the job, but whatever the reason, I know they'd struggle to replace me if I left, as I've seen them struggling to hire a junior, let alone a (dare I say it) senior. Or someone with some experience/education, at least.

It got to the point where I was asked to simplify and thoroughly document all of my work procedures (by which he meant write down all of things someone would otherwise be taught in universities and training courses) so that, and I quote, "any old monkey could do it.... no really, I seriously mean I want an orang-utan could do be able to do it". I felt like I was documenting myself right out of a job, and he said to me that the situation was dire enough to warrant hiring a school-leaver (not even a uni grad doing a computing-related course) and that they can do all the small-time monkey work. Again, we couldn't even secure an enthusiastic school leaver right when the kids were all finishing their exams and leaving school.

So you'll forgive me if I'm slightly pessimistic when I think they might struggle to get someone to replace me if I left or whatever. I don't exactly live in a big town or anything, and the locals have a less-than-average enthusiasm for going to work as it is.

I'm all for going above and beyond for a company, especially if you like what you do, but when the "above and beyond" starts to become expected of you as standard, and the money doesn't go up accordingly, I don't think that's fair.

I've also got a million criticisms of the external auditing company that we used to evaluate each role in the company, but don't even get me started on that.

That's a very long 'but'.

Seriously - you're replaceable.  Your bosses know that otherwise they'd be bending over backwards to keep you with offers of a directorship, payrise and parties with free bars and latino hotties.  If you left, they'd phone up a recruitment agency and get a good-enough replacement within a couple of months.

I'm not trying to disparage what you do and are capable of - it's just that there are others out there at the moment with more experience than you who even be willing to relocate for a job.

So, lose this notion that you're irreplaceable, and focus on what you bring to the company, and use that as a negotiation tool :-)

[familychoice]

who even be willing to relocate for a job.

I've a vague recollection that Dom lives in Basingstoke, so that might not necessarily be the case in this particular example...

[kimpossible]

I've selected 'the people I work with' but as others have said there is not one single aspect, but a combination of many.

I'm a Learning Support Assistant (AKA Teaching Assistant). I certainly don't do the job for the pay as my salary is only approx £10k a year. The main reason I do it is because I love the work - job satisfaction is a big factor. I have previously done a sales job earning nearly treble my current salary. I really wasn't happy and going to work felt like a chore. I was a nobody and I spent my day earning thousands of pounds for somebody else. Life's too short to waste my years being a nobody.
My job has meaning now. Everyday I make a difference...every day I am valued (by colleagues and pupils). I don't feel like I'm working and I look forward to going into work.

Obviously the 12 weeks holiday are a big bonus and work well with me being a single mum (it has definitely helped me save on childcare costs). Now that my kids are teens I can look at furthering my career in education (although I have no desire to become a teacher).

The only downside with my current position is job security. Over the past 5 years I have had 6 temporary contracts at the school. I've just started on another years temporary contract...as the money is so tight, I only got my previous contract extended 3 days before the end of last term.