BT - Here we go...

[familychoice]

Not quite a rant yet, but just checked the costs for additional broadband usage and they charge £5 for an additional 5gb. That matches what I was told on the phone when signing up "£1 for each extra gb", but there was no mention that they charge for it in blocks of 5, so if I'm a gb over then it will cost me a fiver. Oh and they have us down as 'weekend anytime calls' when it should be for the whole week.

I hate these companies.

[Dom]

My smile broadened a bit when I saw this thread, I have to say... I just knew it would happen lol.

I hope that the minor phone package "slip up" gets resolved and this thread doesn't need to turn into a full rant. I think you could do with some much-needed good luck!

[familychoice]

My smile broadened a bit when I saw this thread, I have to say... I just knew it would happen lol.

I hope that the minor phone package "slip up" gets resolved and this thread doesn't need to turn into a full rant. I think you could do with some much-needed good luck!

Thanks, checked the phone package bit and they confirmed we get the full week but just to wind me up they list it as a weekends only package in my account.

When I brought up the additional usage issue she told me they had recently updated their conditions from 1 to 5gb 'blocks'. When I asked her when this was she told me 3 months ago, so basically I was either deliberately mislead by the sales person when I signed up, who led me to believe that I would be charged per gb, or (more likely) she hadn't been updated with the new package details.

It's a surprise to me but I'm going to go over the 10gb. According to their stats I'm already getting through 500mb per day without any video viewing or file downloading and while I'm quite happy to pay a £1 per gb, I'm not going to pay £10 for 6gb, or £5 for 50mb. It's a rip-off, and I'm sure there is absolutely no technical reason for charging in 5gb blocks it's just a ploy to squeeze more money out of customers.

In either case they're on dodgy ground as I have been given misleading details for the package they were selling. They would have got away with it if the additional usage policy had changed after I'd signed up, but it hasn't, and I specifically asked them what the additional usage charges would be.

Waiting for her 'supervisor' to call back and I just know I'll be ringing again tomorrow to chase it up.

I don't really want to be offline again but this sort of thing pisses me off and I'll change providers again if they don't sort it out.

[Whatever]

And if you signed up over the phone it will be recorded so you can request a copy of the conversation audio file.

[familychoice]

And if you signed up over the phone it will be recorded so you can request a copy of the conversation audio file.

Ah right, didn't realise I could ask for a copy. That'll be useful if I pass the complaint on to Trading Standards or Offcom 

[robwhizz]

Have you actually got your broadband with BT or someone else through wholesale?

£5 per gb seems a little extreme when you consider the difference between 10GB with weekend and evening calls, and unlimited internet and calls is only £14 per month on domestic. If you use business broadband the difference between 10GB and unlimited is only £4 (plus VAT of course).

I almost switched to BT business for my broadband after everyone else refused to offer unlimited because I only have BT Wholesale, and BT domestic insist on taking the phone line instead, which adds £10 per month line rental - or rather it doesn't, because it's only £10 per month if you pay all 12 months up front, otherwise it's closer to £14 pm.
Pipex offered me unlimited to keep hold of me, and dropped it to £16 per month. I've been averaging somewhere around 100GB per month for the last 4 months and they've not complained about it yet.

[familychoice]

Have you actually got your broadband with BT or someone else through wholesale?

I'm guessing it's BT, that's who I'm paying anyway.

£5 per gb seems a little extreme when you consider the difference between 10GB with weekend and evening calls, and unlimited internet and calls is only £14 per month on domestic. If you use business broadband the difference between 10GB and unlimited is only £4 (plus VAT of course).

It's £1 per gb, but they've fixed it to blocks of 5 at a time so you could pay £5 for going over by a meg, or 5gb.

Where's the £14 per month unlimited deal? The cheapest unlimited deal I can find is £28: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633

though they have an unlimited business option for £14 plus VAT, though I'd have to pay for the router.

[EDIT] Oh look prices vary according to exchange, and surprise surprise we're in the highest bracket so it's actually £18

Pipex offered me unlimited to keep hold of me, and dropped it to £16 per month. I've been averaging somewhere around 100GB per month for the last 4 months and they've not complained about it yet.

I was probably getting a good deal with TalkTalk, when it was working. The problem we have here in Narnia is that other companies don't cover the area with their own engineers and rely on BT, so their support is pants.

I'll probably have to upgrade to the £18 per month 40gb option with only weekend calls, either that or switch to Plusnet (if they cover this area).

Bored now.

[Mr Anderson]

Where's the £14 per month unlimited deal?

The 'difference' between the 10GB + eve & week end call option and the unlimited BB & calls is £14, not that there's a £14 option for those. In other words, £5 for 5GB extra is extreme when you consider that, regardless of whether you get it in a 1GB or 5GB block.

[familychoice]

Where's the £14 per month unlimited deal?

The 'difference' between the 10GB + eve & week end call option and the unlimited BB & calls is £14, not that there's a £14 option for those. In other words, £5 for 5GB extra is extreme when you consider that, regardless of whether you get it in a 1GB or 5GB block.

I misread that, I've lost the knack of this reading and typing thing. I'll get it back again though.

I'll see how we get on for the first few months, I reckon we'll be under 15gb, just, which will cost less than £15 per month with the extra 5gb. if we go over that then it'll be £20 and we might as well upgrade. Shame it's not in 1gb blocks though as I was led to believe...

[Dom]

...either that or switch to Plusnet (if they cover this area).

That's who I signed up with. We've been with them for a couple of years and their support seemed one of the best that I've seen (not that that's saying a lot, mind you).

We're on the 60Gb per month package with free evening and weekend calls - £11.49 per month (plus the line rental, which is cheaper than BT's at £11.99)

[familychoice]

...either that or switch to Plusnet (if they cover this area).

That's who I signed up with. We've been with them for a couple of years and their support seemed one of the best that I've seen (not that that's saying a lot, mind you).

We're on the 60Gb per month package with free evening and weekend calls - £11.49 per month (plus the line rental, which is cheaper than BT's at £11.99)

Sounds good. I checked with a few friends and clients that are using Plusnet in this area though and they weren't that impressed with the service. One friend has seen his speed drop from around 7mbps to under 2 since moving from TalkTalk, and others have complained that faults have been slow to be fixed. I think that's more of an issue with this area though as other companies aren't covering it with any/enough engineers.

I'm *hoping* that the extra we're paying BT will mean a better service, however the promised callback yesterday hasn't materialised, which is back to TalkTalk standards.

Ho hum.

[edit] Back to TalkTalk style service, just chased them up and they have no record of my enquiry yesterday or the promise of a supervisor to call back.

[edit2] They apologised for the 'inconvenience' and explained it would be £5, then 'we have a bad line', then she came back on, apologised again and the phone went dead.

[Jem]

PlusNet are BT.

We've been with PlusNet about 5 years and have no major problems. Issue a couple of years back which took a few phone calls to sort but that's it.

[Dom]

Well, Plusnet are owned by BT, yeah. Then again, every provider around my way is a BT reseller so we don't really have a lot of choice. I think Plusnet are the best of a bad bunch (at least in my area).

We've had problems on the line, but that comes from living five miles away from the local exchange, so there's not a great deal they could do about it.

When everything is working I think their prices are fair and their usage is good, plus they offer official support via Twitter and their forums too, which is nice.

[familychoice]

They're owned by BT? Nice to see competition is alive and well in the telecomms industry. And talking of competition, how come BT can charge more for their service if there's less competition in a particular area?

Waiting for another callback from BT. They've offered £10 as compensation but as theoretically I could pay £72 more during my contract than they stated when I signed up I've told them it aint enough. Also wasn't impressed they said they were taking a 'risk' in giving compensation based on what I had told them, so reminded them they could check the recorded conversation I'd had when signing up.

Not quite a rant, yet, but in my first few weeks with BT they:

#grabbed the line early so I was offline for an additional 2 weeks
#mis-sold the package I'm on
#supervisor/manager failed to call me back as promised
#didn't keep a record of my query

I'm guessing, as with all my other moans this list will just keep on growing until I explode into a million disappointed pieces.

[robwhizz]

Plusnet may make some difference to FC in terms of support (although that's debatable now that it's owned by BT) and price, but as it's using BT Wholesale nothing else will change.

I've spoken to numerous companies about traffic shaping and what not on BT Wholesale and can't get a decent answer. I can't work out that if Pipex buy a wholesale lease from BT how much control my internet connection is with them and how much with BT.

I struggle to get over 1Mb/s when using the web in general. If I set up a secure connection to somewhere with good bandwidth then I reliably get a constant 6.5Mb/s. That tells me that something is wrong with my internet. Pipex say they don't shape traffic and it's a BT issue...

Either way, you are stuck with crap internet for the foreseeable future.


I read last year about a company who specialise setting up wireless future-proofed networks for little villages and remote locations etc. Faster than BTs infinity rubbish which was out of date before anybody even used it, and future proofed so it can deliver much more speed in years to come.
I can't find the company that I read about, but there are a number of companies offering this type of thing. Might be registering your interest with some of them, and perhaps getting your neighbours to do the same.

[Dom]

Considering BT Infinity is fibre, I was rather shocked to hear in their TV campaign that all you get is an "average of 4 times standard broadband speeds". Four times?!? That'll be good enough to put us on par with what the rest of Europe offers now, but how is that going to help fulfil the government's pledge to make the UK a leading broadband provider by 2015?

This country needs to stop playing catch-up, and start planning for the future. If they're rolling out fibre, it should be fibre to the premises, and not just to the cabinet, which is what Infinity is. If it takes them a few more years to complete that than it will if they only do fibre to the cabinet, then so be it. They've delayed FTTC enough times already anyway. According to their original schedule, we should have had fibre rolled out to our cabinets about a year ago. Now we won't get it until 2012 some time.

Come on BT, sort it out!

[Dom]

For anyone who wants to know when Infinity will be available in their area, here's a map:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/assets/fibre_map/index.html

[familychoice]

Plusnet may make some difference to FC in terms of support (although that's debatable now that it's owned by BT) and price, but as it's using BT Wholesale nothing else will change.

I've spoken to numerous companies about traffic shaping and what not on BT Wholesale and can't get a decent answer. I can't work out that if Pipex buy a wholesale lease from BT how much control my internet connection is with them and how much with BT.

TalkTalk were using BT Wholesale as well.

I think basically everyone here has to go via BT whoever they use, but BT customers appear to get a faster connection and better engineer support. Telephone support is just as crap, as I've now discovered, and it's more expensive, but I get a decent speed (at the moment, 5.3mbps) and I'm hoping exchange/line issues will be sorted out faster.

I struggle to get over 1Mb/s when using the web in general. If I set up a secure connection to somewhere with good bandwidth then I reliably get a constant 6.5Mb/s. That tells me that something is wrong with my internet. Pipex say they don't shape traffic and it's a BT issue...

It'd be interesting to know what you'd get via BT directly.

For anyone who wants to know when Infinity will be available in their area, here's a map:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/assets/fibre_map/index.html

Our exchange isn't even on the list lol

[Shirker]

And talking of competition, how come BT can charge more for their service if there's less competition in a particular area?

That IS competition. Fewer competitors usually means higher prices - same in pretty much all industries or services.

We certainly do - there are areas of the country we know few of our competitors will go to so we charge more because we know the people there will have to pay it.

[Dom]

It'd be interesting to know what you'd get via BT directly.

In theory you should get the same speeds whoever you're with. If BT equipment (and most importantly, phone lines) are being used, then it shouldn't matter who you're with, you should get pretty much the same speeds. Unless some ISPs limit speeds at certain times, of course.

I bet it doesn't work out that way though. At my old place, we got a massive 1Mb from our "up to 20Mb" service, although that was consistent across three different ISPs (all using BT lines and equipment, mind you).

[familychoice]

I bet it doesn't work out that way though. At my old place, we got a massive 1Mb from our "up to 20Mb" service, although that was consistent across three different ISPs (all using BT lines and equipment, mind you).

My mates gone from 7 to 2mbps with Plusnet, and considering they and TalkTalk are using the same provider and phoneline that would suggest someone's throttling the speed somewhere. BT did promise that I'd get up to 2mbps more using them directly and provided some technical reason for this but I've forgotten what it was.

And talking of competition, how come BT can charge more for their service if there's less competition in a particular area?

That IS competition. Fewer competitors usually means higher prices - same in pretty much all industries or services.

They've been told by Ofcom to cut their wholesale broadband price as it's putting off other companies from setting up in rural areas. Doesn't sound like they've been providing a level playing field to me.

[familychoice]

So the callback 'within 2 hours' hasn't materialised, again.

[edit] just called back, and whilst being transferred to a supervisor was cut off, again.

So, with yesterdays call that's four calls to support so far: two promised callbacks that didn't materialise and two were cut off (and they don't bother to call back afterwards). That's actually worse than TalkTalk.

[Dom]

Next time someone says they'll call you back within x hours you should get their name so that you can report them if they don't.

[familychoice]

Next time someone says they'll call you back within x hours you should get their name so that you can report them if they don't.

Well I've got four names so far.

I've just spent an hour talking to them. Despite repeatedly asking to speak to someone in the complaints department, a supervisor, or manager, the guy would put me on hold and then come back on again repeating the same old crap. Eventually I completely lost it and screamed down the phone at him, which worked and I was put through, finally, to the complaints department.

The person there admitted that none of my calls had been logged as a complaint or tagged to be followed up and agreed that it was unacceptable. She then said she would send the complaint and this time I've been given a reference number. She says they will check the sign up phonecall and if I have been mis-sold the service then has suggested some form of compensation. The tenner I was offered earlier wasn't mentioned so I presume this was another red herring from Narnia. The best solution would be to move me up to the next option and refund the difference which'd give me 40gb but only free weekend calls. Better than nothing.

If they don't, or they don't get back to me then I'm going to cancel. The experience I've just had with their support is, to be honest, completely bizarre. 5 calls, cut off twice, and during the last one being put on hold and going straight back to the same guy with clattering and giggling in the background is about as bad a support experience as you can get. And just like TalkTalk as soon as you end the call the complaint isn't logged, it's completely forgotten.

This is now, officially a rant.

[robwhizz]

provided some technical reason for this but I've forgotten what it was.

IIRC it's called 'bullsh*t'. I've been given that particular technical reason lots of times...

They've been told by Ofcom to cut their wholesale broadband price as it's putting off other companies from setting up in rural areas. Doesn't sound like they've been providing a level playing field to me.

I wonder if that's why Pipex were able to offer me a decent deal.
It's so bloody frustrating that companies are offering free broadband - like Sky, or really cheap broadband, and if you have Cable you can get phone, TV and decent broadband for the same price that I pay (well, used to) just for a crap internet connection. Couple of lads in the office have 100MB with Virgin and actually can max it out during off-peak times - and us who live in the sticks just think our selves lucky if a you tube video plays without needing to buffer every 5 seconds.

Considering BT Infinity is fibre, I was rather chocked to hear in their TV campaign that all you get is an "average of 4 times standard broadband speeds". Four times?!? That'll be good enough to put us on par with what the rest of Europe offers now, but how is that going to help fulfil the government's pledge to make the UK a leading broadband provider by 2015?

This country needs to stop playing catch-up, and start planning for the future. If they're rolling out fibre, it should be fibre to the premises, and not just to the cabinet, which is what Infinity is. If it takes them a few more years to complete that than it will if they only do fibre to the cabinet, then so be it. They've delayed FTTC enough times already anyway. According to their original schedule, we should have had fibre rolled out to our cabinets about a year ago. Now we won't get it until 2012 some time.

Come on BT, sort it out!

Exactly. BT have dragged their feet for years over fibre to squeeze every last penny out of their copper network. 21CN is a joke. It should really be called 20CN. They are going for the cheapest and easiest solution that they could have implemented years ago instead of creating a network that's future proof.
Virgin are offering 100MB now and that kit can supposedly do 200MB. They have also been trialling 1.5Gbps in areas of London which they say uses the existing infrastructure.

[familychoice]

It's so bloody frustrating that companies are offering free broadband - like Sky, or really cheap broadband, and if you have Cable you can get phone, TV and decent broadband for the same price that I pay (well, used to) just for a crap internet connection. Couple of lads in the office have 100MB with Virgin and actually can max it out during off-peak times - and us who live in the sticks just think our selves lucky if a you tube video plays without needing to buffer every 5 seconds.

It's not fair that a private company, BT, have so much control over the infrastructure and are throttling the competition. It means that some of the population are getting lightning fast connections for nothing while others (you and me) are stuck with an expensive, slow, and unreliable service. Bloody Thatchers legacy still haunting the country after all these years. The government keep making noises about providing rural areas with better connections but even when they get around to sorting it out they'll never address the inequality in service provision.

etc

[Jem]

FC, have you considered that perhaps you were someone like Hitler in a previous life and this is karma's revenge?

Just checking, like.

[familychoice]

FC, have you considered that perhaps you were someone like Hitler in a previous life and this is karma's revenge?

Just checking, like.

Gott in himmel.....

[Dom]

Exactly. BT have dragged their feet for years over fibre to squeeze every last penny out of their copper network. 21CN is a joke. It should really be called 20CN. They are going for the cheapest and easiest solution that they could have implemented years ago instead of creating a network that's future proof.
Virgin are offering 100MB now and that kit can supposedly do 200MB. They have also been trialling 1.5Gbps in areas of London which they say uses the existing infrastructure.

Oh the joys of the 21CN! We upgraded to that about 18 months ago, and went from 1Mb (out of 8Mb on the 20CN) to a whopping.... 1Mb (out of 20Mb on the 21CN).

Absolutely no change in speed whatsoever. But we did get a more unstable connection, and got disconnect at least once a day! Which resulted in our Line Speed and Sync Speed being reduced to "counter the instability". What it did was mean that we rarely even got 1Mb.

[Dud]

Considering BT Infinity is fibre, I was rather shocked to hear in their TV campaign that all you get is an "average of 4 times standard broadband speeds". Four times?!? That'll be good enough to put us on par with what the rest of Europe offers now, but how is that going to help fulfil the government's pledge to make the UK a leading broadband provider by 2015?

This country needs to stop playing catch-up, and start planning for the future. If they're rolling out fibre, it should be fibre to the premises, and not just to the cabinet, which is what Infinity is. If it takes them a few more years to complete that than it will if they only do fibre to the cabinet, then so be it. They've delayed FTTC enough times already anyway. According to their original schedule, we should have had fibre rolled out to our cabinets about a year ago. Now we won't get it until 2012 some time.

Come on BT, sort it out!

Openreach are currently rolling out FTTP in areas around the UK

We have had Infinity in our area for at least a year now. This sort of network overhaul is a huge logistical task. It cannot happen overnight.

edit.

Some advice:

Here is an excellent guide. I suggest you try this first as this is the cause of most slow speed issues.

Before you do this, check the router config page for:

• Downstream Connection speed
• Downstream Attenuation
• Downstream Signal To Noise

Compare and contrast the figures before and after. If you see a change from before (quicker connection speed, lower attenuation/SNR) you may have issues with your internal wiring.

Dud



Dud