Desktop PC advice

[net-curtains]

I'm after a new PC for work, and the spec for this one fits the bill: http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/Desktops/studio-xps-8100/pd.aspx?refid=studio-xps-8100&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&ref=dthp

Third one along - £849 for the i7 870/6gb RAM/1.5TB/1GB ATI Radeon model.

It's a good spec, though their prices have been stagnant for a year now.

Thing is, thanks to the last few years of dealing with Dell's 'support' (I actually had to ask a senior manager to stop shouting at me 3 times, during one 'support' phone enquiry) and their ramshackle accounts department (covered elsewhere on here, they were going to send the bailiffs round because their system didn't take our payment when we submitted it, then demanded payment with menaces but didn't provide a means for us to do so)....I'd really like to avoid using them. On the plus side the machine I've used every day for the past 4 years is a Dell and it's been a good workhorse.

So if anyone has any recommendations for a similarly specced/priced model with a more reliable company then I'd be grateful for any advice.

I have had a bit of a look around but it's difficult to match their prices.

TIA

[robwhizz]

You've put in a 1GB gfx card. Do you play games much? If not then all that memory and power goes to waste on 2D apps. Plus it will eat a 1GB sized hole in your RAM (I'm a bit out of touch here, but last time I looked at a 64-bit OS, graphics cards still took memory allocation from the end of the 4GB space to maintain backwards compatibility with 32-bit systems. This means that of the 6GB you install, only 5GB will actually be used. I'm not 100% sure if modern hardware and Win7 have got around this problem now, but I've got a feeling they haven't).

A cheap 512MB card will provide more than enough grunt for multi-monitor setups running 2D apps. I use a passively cooled gfx card. It can't play games very well, but it's silent, does eat much power and doesn't each too much RAM. Handles 2 hi-res monitors no problem and plays HD video fine. It's years old too, so any cheap modern card will provide plenty more power than I have.

Have specced something on Ginger6? They seem to get a lot of recommendations.

The other 'problem' I have with Dell, is that mobos are custom jobs, cut down and often difficult to expand depending on what you buy. Go for a custom build from someone else and at least you get a full spec mobo with options to updgrade and add on etc. It's not a much a problem if you buy a new machine regularly, but I think that PCs are so bloody fast now that unless you are a gamer there is not much need to upgrade very often. My ancient Athlon 64 dual core would get eaten for breakfast by even the cheapest CPU now, but it still gives me no issues with Lightroom 3 (which is quite CPU intensive sometimes) and photoshop.

Also, I hate the OEM'd version of Windows that they put on, full of bloatware and trial software you have to uninstall. That's another good reason to buy from an independent that installs a nice plain vanilla OS, even if they cost a little bit more.

[Matt]

Everything robwhizz said.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/home/ and http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/business/

Or I can custom build you one

[net-curtains]

You've put in a 1GB gfx card. Do you play games much? If not then all that memory and power goes to waste on 2D apps.

Thanks for the reply Rob. It's mostly 2d work, but I'd like to do more video editing - would a bigger card help with that?

Have specced something on Ginger6? They seem to get a lot of recommendations.

I think I had a look a while back, but they seem a bit cheaper than the last time I checked. This looks good http://www.ginger6.com/intel-core-custom-built-p-31733.html, how do you think it compares with the Dell? I can see the differences in RAM and stuff, but chipsets and coolers go completely over my head.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/home/ and http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/business/

Thanks Matt, I'll have a look.

I'd like to have a go at building one, but just haven't got the time unfortunately.

[Matt]

You've put in a 1GB gfx card. Do you play games much? If not then all that memory and power goes to waste on 2D apps.

Thanks for the reply Rob. It's mostly 2d work, but I'd like to do more video editing - would a bigger card help with that?

Have specced something on Ginger6? They seem to get a lot of recommendations.

I think I had a look a while back, but they seem a bit cheaper than the last time I checked. This looks good http://www.ginger6.com/intel-core-custom-built-p-31733.html, how do you think it compares with the Dell? I can see the differences in RAM and stuff, but chipsets and coolers go completely over my head.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/home/ and http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/pc/business/

Thanks Matt, I'll have a look.

I'd like to have a go at building one, but just haven't got the time unfortunately.

Have a look on the novatech site for the barebones or bundles.

Building a PC does not take long, I can build one in a couple or hours inc. basic software. Its all about choosing the right parts - which is where the barebones and the motherboard bundles come in useful.

[net-curtains]

Have a look on the novatech site for the barebones or bundles.

Building a PC does not take long, I can build one in a couple or hours inc. basic software. Its all about choosing the right parts - which is where the barebones and the motherboard bundles come in useful.

Thanks Matt, yes I noticed those. Hmmm....the i7 950 barebones looks good. What would I need to add? I'm guessing it needs the hard drive, graphics card and optical drive...is there much else to add? I did a quick shop and threw a few things into the basket and the price is cheaper than Dell, just wondering if the case is going to be as good as the Dell.

[Matt]

Have a look on the novatech site for the barebones or bundles.

Building a PC does not take long, I can build one in a couple or hours inc. basic software. Its all about choosing the right parts - which is where the barebones and the motherboard bundles come in useful.

Thanks Matt, yes I noticed those. Hmmm....the i7 950 barebones looks good. What would I need to add? I'm guessing it needs the hard drive, graphics card and optical drive...is there much else to add? I did a quick shop and threw a few things into the basket and the price is cheaper than Dell, just wondering if the case is going to be as good as the Dell.

I built an i7 using this the other week for a client: http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/motherboardbundles/Novatech/MBB-9504G3.html

All I brought extra was Optical drive, Graphics card, PSU, Harddrive, OS and a decent case. The Antec cases are brilliant, although the novatech cases are not that bad at all - Id always like to be able to choose my own PSU and case - as these can be kept forever making future upgrades cheaper - my antec case has lasted 4 upgrades and so has my PSU, so well worth spending the money on. I think this time it was an antec three hundred case, altho I have had 3 other antec cases in this week so cant remember 100%

[net-curtains]

All I brought extra was Optical drive, Graphics card, PSU, Harddrive, OS and a decent case.

Thanks for the info Matt - it's very tempting. What PSU did you choose - and is there anything else required - leads (fan?) and stuff?

I've got a spare case here, it's an old Evesham - it's about 7 years old though so not sure if it'd be any use. If it was, and the power supply was usable that might save me a few quid.

[Matt]

All I brought extra was Optical drive, Graphics card, PSU, Harddrive, OS and a decent case.

Thanks for the info Matt - it's very tempting. What PSU did you choose - and is there anything else required - leads (fan?) and stuff?

I've got a spare case here, it's an old Evesham - it's about 7 years old though so not sure if it'd be any use. If it was, and the power supply was usable that might save me a few quid.

Dont skimp on the PSU and case, I brought an OCZ one recently, but again antec do some good ones:
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?sort=pricelow&store=2&cat=149&filtermfr=195&limit=10&page=1

Have a look on ebuyer/novatech - if you see a couple around your price range post them up for us to compare

[net-curtains]

Thanks Matt, I'll have a look today.

[orydian]

Recommend http://overclockers.co.uk for 'bits'.

ory.

[robwhizz]

It's mostly 2d work, but I'd like to do more video editing - would a bigger card help with that?

The latest version of Adobe Premier does utilise the graphics card for rendering effects. Can't say I've looked too deeply, but I believe it was a bit of a disappointment in so much as only two or three effects benefited (if memory serves).

For anything else, the graphics card helps in no way at all with video editing.


As Matt says, buy the good PSU. The extra cost is quickly negated by the electricity savings. And they tend to last for a good time too. Cheap supplies often don't last very long.
I swear by Seasonic, but they can be pricey. A lot of Antecs are actually made by Seasonic too (in fact a lot of top end PSUs are made by Seasonic for other manufacturers), so definitely a good brand to look for.

If you do go for the self build, then it's worth investing in a good case. I love Lian Li, but there are plenty of other great cases - Coolermaster, Antec and Silverstone make some very good cases.
Bought my Lian Li about 10 years ago and I've never needed to replace it. It's had about 6 different PCs in it over the years and is still as good as new (expect drilling out the back to fit a 120mm fan). When you look at a case just make sure it has plenty of ventilation at the front bottom, and a 120mm fan/cut out at the rear to ensure good airflow.

CPU cooler, go for an Arctic Freezer Pro. These things have been kicking around for years. They are cheap and incredibly effective. They were the only thing I ever fitted when I used to build PCs. At the time I could pick one up for about £12 and they more effective than some water cooling kits costing around £100. Plus, they have great rubber fan mounts, coupled with a big fan which makes them really quiet.

[Tony]

The latest version of Adobe Premier does utilise the graphics card for rendering effects. Can't say I've looked too deeply, but I believe it was a bit of a disappointment in so much as only two or three effects benefited (if memory serves).

For anything else, the graphics card helps in no way at all with video editing.

CS5 is way above the previous versions due to the mercury playback engine which funnels the graphics through to the graphics card - believe me when you're editing HD footage it's a godsend, in the previous version I had to create a low res avi from the original footage, edit with that then replace the low res footage with the HD before output - a real faff. Now I can edit in real time with no lag, stutter or waiting for processing and rendering.

That said, to get the most out of it you need an Nvidia GFX card with cuda in it (whatever that is) it's reasonable with an ATI, but miles better with cuda. So yeah, if you are editing video with PP, the graphics card is probably more important than the processor / RAM

Also, HTML5 is making more use of the graphics to deliver graphical parts of web pages, taking the weight off the CPU - have a look at http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/performance/FishIETank/ and see what your FPS is with 1000 fish - that uses GFX

And be aware that not all i7's are equal, the ones that start with an 8 are only capable of running DDR2 ram whereas the 9's will run DDR3 effectively giving you 3x the ram you install as long as you install in multiples of 3.

[net-curtains]

Thanks for all the advice

[keri]

just to throw my 2p worth in, dells are decent machines, not the best, but definitely not worst i've dealt with.
They have been surprisingly good for support recently, we've had two pcs sorted in a day or two by them and they keep chasing us to see if one of our servers is ok, it threw an error, we called them, the error went away and they are now pro-actively chasing us to see if the error has come back  - can't really argue with that for support.

[Rosco]

I've always found Dell's Business support to be great, but Dell Home is usually poo... apart from one experience with an overseas call centre where the Indian guy was pretty knowledgable rather than reading 'solutions' off of a FAQ script

[Matt]

We use Dell for our server support and have about 90 machines from them in the school, the business support is great, but for home users there are better deals out there.

[net-curtains]

I've always found Dell's Business support to be great, but Dell Home is usually poo

Just priced up an identical machine and monitor spec on Dell:

Home - £1049

Business - £1,278

[Rosco]

I've always found Dell's Business support to be great, but Dell Home is usually poo

Just priced up an identical machine and monitor spec on Dell:

Home - £1049

Business - £1,278

I was talking about Dell Support, not Dell Sales

Dell Sales has always been poo... but once you get past the pain and the machines arrive then it's normally a smooth enough ride for the rest of the machine's life (again, if you're a business customer)