Dell payment cock up

[net-curtains]

We bought our Inspiron Laptop from the Dell website a few months ago, paid online with our credit card, had an acknowledgement of payment and receipt, then received the machine so all fine and dandy.

A few months later my wife had a call from Dell demanding payment. She replied that she'd already paid online, and sent an email of complaint to Dell. We never heard anything back.

This morning we received an email from a debt collection agency, on Dells behalf demanding payment for the laptop.

We just checked our account and it looks like they didn't take payment for the laptop after all, despite taking our credit card details and sending confirmation of payment. We didn't think to check as we assumed they'd taken payment, as they had confirmed when we ordered it.

To be honest the laptop has been back once for repairs, and we're not impressed with it, and we're certainly not impressed with Dell who seem to have seriously gone downhill over the last couple of years. We're tempted to tell them to come and pick it up and take it back, after all they were supposed to have taken payment for it originally, and so they shouldn't have sent it to us in the first place.

What would you do in our position?

[Ben]

If I had a true confirmation of payment, I'd argue I'd already paid - and see how I got on.

[Chris H]

First off gather all correspondence. invoices, recipts together.

Second get in touch with the debt collection outfit and explain the situation to them. Specifically say that the debt is in dispute so they should put a hold on it. Find out if Dell have sold the debt on to them or they are working on Dell's behalf.

Third give Dell a kick up the bum complaining how you'll seek legal redress if they've toasted your credit rating. Usual rants. Get them to call off the debt collection agency and sort out the payment.

Third, check your credit rating. If it's been shafted by Dell then seek further advice on what to do. I believe it can be a nightmare to correct or amend credit ratings held by these agencies.

Since the lappy's been back for repair I don't think you can send it back and tell them to sod off.

As an aside I share a minibus with the Dell employees from their head office to the train station. To say they aren't the happiest of bunnies is an understatement. Those that they still have working, place is a bit of a ghost town. Complaints of not enough staff and too much work seem to come to the fore.

[net-curtains]

If I had a true confirmation of payment, I'd argue I'd already paid - and see how I got on.

It's tempting!

First off gather all correspondence. invoices, recipts together.

Second get in touch with the debt collection outfit and explain the situation to them. Specifically say that the debt is in dispute so they should put a hold on it. Find out if Dell have sold the debt on to them or they are working on Dell's behalf.

Third give Dell a kick up the bum complaining how you'll seek legal redress if they've toasted your credit rating. Usual rants. Get them to call off the debt collection agency and sort out the payment.

Third, check your credit rating. If it's been shafted by Dell then seek further advice on what to do. I believe it can be a nightmare to correct or amend credit ratings held by these agencies.

Thanks for the advice, yes that's what worries me - the credit rating bit. They're using this company to collect the debt: http://www.creditmanagementpays.co.uk/ but they copied in the twerp working for Dell that we contacted before and didn't respond so maybe they're just working for them. They haven't threatened any penalties yet, it's just telling us to get in touch.

We're happy to pay it, after all we thought we already had, but if they've messed up our credit rating we'll flipping sue them. As it is it's going to mess up our accounts as the cost of the laptop was included in our expenses.

As an aside I share a minibus with the Dell employees from their head office to the train station. To say they aren't the happiest of bunnies is an understatement. Those that they still have working, place is a bit of a ghost town. Complaints of not enough staff and too much work seem to come to the fore.

I can imagine - I used to work for them! I can honestly say I've never in my life experienced such a slippery bunch of tossers in my life. The guys I worked with were great, but the management were foul.

[net-curtains]

Dell Hell.

We had an email back from Dell admitting their system hadn't taken the payment, despite sending us a receipt saying it had.

We've now been given a week by the debt collectors, but no-one from Dell is responding to our emails - we've sent about 6 asking them if our credit rating has been affected by their mistake, and also, how do we actually send them payment?

The Mrs sent an email last night and included in about 8 Dell and debt collection company addresses and they all bounced back with 'out of office until May...' auto-responses.

So we can't pay Dell anyway, but our credit rating will be affected and at the end of the week they'll be taking us to court. We're spending hours trying to call them, email them, and generally getting stressed.

We're passing it on to trading standards this morning, and to think I nearly bought a new desktop from them a couple of weeks ago. I can confidently say Dell will never get another order from me, they've seriously gone downhill.

[sarahA]

Wow, what a major nightmare

Have you sent the email from Dell admitting the system not taking payment and forwarded that along with the receipt to the debt collection agency? I would have thought on seeing the receipt for payment the debt collectors would have backed down and told Dell to sort their own mess out!

Trading standards should hopefully help. They're good if you've got a good rep in your area.

[net-curtains]

Wow, what a major nightmare

Have you sent the email from Dell admitting the system not taking payment and forwarded that along with the receipt to the debt collection agency? I would have thought on seeing the receipt for payment the debt collectors would have backed down and told Dell to sort their own mess out!

Trading standards should hopefully help. They're good if you've got a good rep in your area.

Thanks, yes we sent all that to the debt agency. We've also asked them twice if this has already affected our credit rating but they're not answering. We're also miffed that Dell didn't reply when we responded initially, and just passed it straight onto a debt agency instead as if we're criminals.

Trading Standards aren't bad here, they sorted out a previous issue I had when Dell swindled me out of a years support and got me a refund, so we'll give them a go.

You would think though, that you could just buy something without being taken to court.

Dell have been completely incompetent, but instead of apologising, and then telling us how to pay the money their system didn't pick up the first time, they're threatening us with court action, not responding to emails, and have probably already trashed our credit rating.

Doesn't really fill me with confidence for buying from them again, so that's a £1000 sale they've lost already.

[sarahA]

I don't blame you not going to them again after this. The fact that you've got a receipt and an email admitting their system simply didn't take payment would be laughed at by any court, but obviously that's not something you want to go to.

Definitely one for the papers though

[Chris H]

Did you find out if they had bought the debt or were working on behalf of Dell?

[net-curtains]

I don't blame you not going to them again after this. The fact that you've got a receipt and an email admitting their system simply didn't take payment would be laughed at by any court, but obviously that's not something you want to go to.

Definitely one for the papers though

Oh yes, they're going to get a lot of negative publicity over this one if we end up out of pocket.

Did you find out if they had bought the debt or were working on behalf of Dell?

I think they're working on behalf of Dell as Dell are copied in on everything, but they never answer any of our queries so it's difficult to say for sure.

[yawner]

I thought credit rating could only be influenced by defaulting on credit agreements or CCJs?

If you're in doubt about your current credit rating, why not do a check on your credit score with Experian? Takes about 5 minutes.

I really do sympathise with how this has unfurled, but as things stand, their case is that you have been told about the unpaid debt, plus you agree there IS an unpaid debt. Any prevarication on your part will be interpreted as unwillingness to pay up.

Forget Dell. They've passed the case onto the debt collectors. Its those guys you have to pay.

This is a debt collection agency. In my experience these bastards DO NOT do dialogue. If they are in the right (which, I'm sorry but they are, you do have an unpaid debt), then don't bother trying to argue the ifs or buts, pay them pronto. Any delay will see them going for a CCJ against you, and that WILL shaft your credit rating.

Go for the quiet life option Mr Curtains.

[net-curtains]

I really do sympathise with how this has unfurled, but as things stand, their case is that you have been told about the unpaid debt, plus you agree there IS an unpaid debt. Any prevarication on your part will be interpreted as unwillingness to pay up.

We're not unwilling to pay, that's the point, they haven't told us HOW to pay. We can't just send a wad of fivers to India, addressed to Michael Dell, we need a reference number and some method of submission. We asked for this about 6 times but they didn't respond with an answer.

Go for the quiet life option Mr Curtains.

That's what we've been trying to do, and why we've been getting stressed as all we've had are threats from Dell but when we ask how we can resolve the issue, which after all is completely their fault, we're met with a wall of silence.

Anyway, as an update: had a call from Dell tonight which was totally apologetic and placatory. This was due to Mrs Curtains stepping up the heat and mentioning a list of consumer and trading groups that she was going to report them to. So they've called off the dogs and are going to email with details of how we can pay the bill they told us we'd already paid a year ago. And they're knocking off 10% for the trouble they've caused.

[yawner]

We're not unwilling to pay, that's the point, they haven't told us HOW to pay. We can't just send a wad of fivers to India, addressed to Michael Dell, we need a reference number and some method of submission. We asked for this about 6 times but they didn't respond with an answer.

Sorry - I'd assumed the monkeys at the debt collection agency had invoiced you

Thats what they did to me a few years ago when I apparently "owed" NTL £25 for one months unpaid web connection rental. It was over a year since the alleged non-payment so I rang the "agency". I asked the thug if this bill was some sort of a joke. I might as well have raped his granny "I assure you that this is not a joke and you should be taking this very seriously - you could be in big trouble etc etc". He was willing to listen to my case in a 'I can`t wait to break your flippin kneecaps' kind of way. Disturbing, but slightly amusing at the same time.

It was £25. I could easily afford it, so decided that simply paying up was less hassle than fighting. Even though I swear to this day, I didn`t owe a bean. NTL - the bastards of their day.

had a call from Dell tonight which was totally apologetic and placatory. This was due to Mrs Curtains stepping up the heat and mentioning a list of consumer and trading groups that she was going to report them to. So they've called off the dogs and are going to email with details of how we can pay the bill they told us we'd already paid a year ago. And they're knocking off 10% for the trouble they've caused.

A rare success story. I'm delighted for you. 

[sarahA]

Glad to hear you finally heard back from them.

[net-curtains]

Sorry - I'd assumed the monkeys at the debt collection agency had invoiced you

No worries. That's the thing, we could cope with the threats if we'd been given instructions on how to pay, but they didn't, and even after weeks of chasing them up they still didn't provide the means to do so, they just repeated the threats.

Dell: "If you don't pay the £450 you owe we're taking you to court"

The Curtains: "Ok, we thought we'd already paid, but how do we pay this bill?"

Dell: "If you don't pay the £450 you owe we're taking you to court, you now have 7 days to pay"

etc.

A rare success story. I'm delighted for you. 

Thanks

Glad to hear you finally heard back from them.

Thanks Sarah, but previous experiences with Dell make us cautious so we won't be celebrating just yet. We haven't had the confirmation email the bloke on the phone promised to send yet, communication there is hopeless so it wouldn't surprise me if we received another one of their criminalising demands instead.

[Mr Anderson]

This sounds typical for a debt collection agency, where pretty much the first thing they do is threaten court action to bully a payment out of you without first checking facts. A bit like when I got a letter from Aktiv Kapital telling me that I had 48 hours to contact them or they'd take me to court, a letter I received on a Saturday when their office was closed, meaning I couldn't contact them within 48 hours any way, meaning a weekend of stress for Sarah. And when I did get through to them asked if I'd lived in Aberdeen, and when I said that I hadn't ever lived there they just flippantly dismissed the issue by telling me that it wasn't even me they were after but someone they thought I might have lived with and that I could just rip up their letter and forget about it. Right, so a company that will threaten court on first contact with someone just for potentially having lived with a debtor is to be trusted to just forget about it. I eventually got a letter through from them confirming that I wasn't the person they wanted, which I was going to take to the trading standards but in typical style I completely forgot about doing it.

I'm glad you've finally managed to get your issue resolved, but I'd still complain to someone official (if I remembered).

[net-curtains]

Right, so a company that will threaten court on first contact with someone just for potentially having lived with a debtor is to be trusted to just forget about it.

That's the thing, bearing in mind they weren't competent enough in the first place to check that the laptop had been paid for before sending it out, doesn't fill me with confidence that this payment will be any more successful, or that after it's been paid I won't continue to get threatening letters. We'll also have to make sure we get a full receipt for it and ensure they don't take a second payment out of our account at a later date when their ropey system suddenly kicks back into life for the first order.

Still haven't had an email from them.

[Tony]

Find out who the chief exec is and write them a letter.

When we changed hosts on here a year or so ago, webfusion charged my card for a years hosting even though we cleared out and moved before the hosting was due for renewal, the response was that as they had already taken the money it was a confirmation of my agreement - they took it a month before it was due then sent me an email telling me that I had paid for it.

I made several phone calls to some cocky twats who told me to basically piss off - this rolled on for around three months. I found the chief execs name and address, wrote him a letter and had a phone call the next day, then a refund within two days and an apology - along with a request for the names of the idiots I had spoken to, which I duly supplied.

That taught me a lesson, if you don't get any joy with the usual channels, don't ask who their boss is, go straight to the top - they know that most of the information they get is filtered and watered down, and most of them really appreciate getting a real perspective of their company from a users point of view - warts and all.

[yawner]

That taught me a lesson, if you don't get any joy with the usual channels, don't ask who their boss is, go straight to the top - they know that most of the information they get is filtered and watered down, and most of them really appreciate getting a real perspective of their company from a users point of view - warts and all.

This is true in my experience. I won't bore you with the details (the story is probably somewhere on DDN several times anyway), but I was having big bother with my Alfa dealer after buying a GTV from them. After several months getting nowhere with the dealer, we wrote a letter to the Managing Director of Alfa Romeo. Within about 3 days I was getting grovelling calls from the dealer, and the car was sorted very quickly after that.

Unfortunately the experience put me off Alfas for life as most of their dealers seem to be hopeless. And as for Mercedes........

[net-curtains]

Find out who the chief exec is and write them a letter.

Yeah, we usually do that and have had a few refunds as a result. Not sure who's who at Dell any more, will have to have a hunt around and set Mrs Curtains onto them.

[net-curtains]

We're still waiting for Dell to provide a credit card payment option. They've asked for a cheque, but on previous form we want the protection of using a card in case they mess things up again, plus this was the agreed payment method when we bought the laptop in the first place.

Yesterday we got back to find an answerphone message from the debt collectors asking us to call them 'immediately', which doesn't really make sense bearing in mind Dell sent them an email telling them to drop the case.

What a cock up.

[Chris H]

As it says in Job 12:12 "With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.", so it may be prudent to take Mr Y's suggestion of coughing up to the debt collectors, provided it's the correct amount and there's no issue with the credit rating.

And then take Dell to task to see what you can squeeze out of them in 'compensation'.

[net-curtains]

As it says in Job 12:12 "With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.", so it may be prudent to take Mr Y's suggestion of coughing up to the debt collectors, provided it's the correct amount and there's no issue with the credit rating.

How? The debt collectors haven't provided a means of paying them, which is why we didn't pay them off when they contacted us. All we've had are threats. Finally Dell have sent details of how to pay Dell itself direct but it doesn't include the discount or offer the protection of paying by card. We also need to ensure when we do pay that the 10% reduction (or even the full amount) isn't then chased up again by the debt agency.

I can't pay the debt agency as:

1. Dell have told them their service isn't required on this issue as it's Dells fault payment wasn't taken and we're to pay Dell directly instead.

2. They haven't told us how and haven't provided an invoice - as I said previously I'm not going to send a carrier bag full of fivers to some random debt collection agency office.

3. Dell are asking us to pay them direct, so even if we did pay the debt agency Dell would still be chasing us for payment.

Dell have admitted it's their fault and offered a discount but only told us how to pay it after we'd chased them up another 10 times, and then it hasn't included the discount, or the option to pay by credit card as was our original contract. Plus they aren't providing an invoice or any other form of receipt leaving us open to further stupidity from either them or their mongrel agency.

Dell sent an email to the debt collectors telling them their services weren't required but we're still receiving threatening calls.

It's all a f###### mess, the usual incompetent balls up that I've come to expect when buying pretty much anything these days.

[Chris H]

So why are the debt collector's ringing you with this urgent request? Has Dell really called them off?

As an aside, worth seeing if your cc can assist as in theory you gave Dell permission to charge the card at the original sale?

[net-curtains]

So why are the debt collector's ringing you with this urgent request? Has Dell really called them off?

I've no idea, they're supposed to have but the whole thing's a complete cock up. I've seen the email from Dell to the agency yet they're still ringing up in a threatening manner. So either they didn't get the email, or the person it was sent to is on leave and hasn't passed it on, or their system hasn't picked it up....I've no idea, all we wanted to do was buy a laptop, not become embroiled in yet another saga of other peoples incompetence.

As an aside, worth seeing if your cc can assist as in theory you gave Dell permission to charge the card at the original sale?

Maybe, I guess if Dell and their debt agency continue to spin around in their own stupidity then we'll have to get a third party in to try and make sense of it.

[Whatever]

Just speaking with someone I know who's a manager in retail and he says don't worry about the baliffs as they couldn't really take any action against you as you have offered payment but it has not been taken due to the supplier.

With shoplifting for example, the retailer has to show that they offered a means of taking payment and that you deliberately tried to avoid payment which you didn't, albeit your transaction was online.

He says your best bet is Trading Standards

[net-curtains]

Just speaking with someone I know who's a manager in retail and he says don't worry about the baliffs as they couldn't really take any action against you as you have offered payment but it has not been taken due to the supplier.

Thanks for the reply, yes I'm pretty sure they can't do anything - after all we're not withholding payment. Apparently we can't pay by credit card now anyway (Mrs Curtains has checked with our card company), but the direct bank payment method Dell offered didn't work either (Mrs Curtains again checked with the bank today) so at this point in time we have no means of giving them the money.

So at the moment we can't pay Dell, as the method they've provided doesn't work, and we can't pay the debt collection agency as Dell have told us not to, and they haven't told us how to do so anyway.

He says your best bet is Trading Standards

If it carries on like this much longer then we'll have to, although they've changed the system here so we have to send details to a web based consumer organisation first, and they decide whether to involve Trading Standards.

Update:

Just had another aggressive call from the debt agency, demanding payment. So we had to explain (again, for about the 5th time) to them that Dell have told us not to pay their debt agency, and that we're to pay Dell direct. But it seems Dell have also sent the debt agency an email telling them to ask us for payment.

So Dell are still cocking things up - they've told us to pay Dell direct, but also again contacted the debt agency to collect payment on their behalf.

What's happened to Dell? They were never the brightest company in the world but they've turned into a bunch of idiots.

[Whatever]

Write to Martin Lewis at the NotW - notw@moneysavingexpert.com - normally gets things like this sorted.

[net-curtains]

Write to Martin Lewis at the NotW - notw@moneysavingexpert.com - normally gets things like this sorted.

Thanks for the link, just sent him an email.

[Whatever]

Good luck. Will look out for it!