DSLR for about £700.00?

[Curry]

Hello Camera type folk.

I want a DSLR and lens for about 700 of our English pounds. I am certain I want a Canon Eos. I am more interested in getting the best body I can for my money. I'll almost certainly buy better lenses at a later date.

I know I asked this last year but Mrs C got up teh duff shortly after and priorities changed, I also moved house so new toys where not really on my mind.

tia


Matt

[rutty]

Well, for £699 you can buy the Canon 40D - it's the replacement for the 30D and looks really good value.

Considering I bought my 400D for just under £500 less than a year ago I'm quite jealous.

Still, that's body only, but you can get a half-decent lens for less than £100 to go with that, or go with one of the bundles. This is the one I'd go for now if it was me.

[Curry]

Well, for £699 you can buy the Canon 40D - it's the replacement for the 30D and looks really good value.

Considering I bought my 400D for just under £500 less than a year ago I'm quite jealous.

Still, that's body only, but you can get a half-decent lens for less than £100 to go with that, or go with one of the bundles. This is the one I'd go for now if it was me.

Thank you Mr Rutt sir but with a lens that may stretch the budget a little. So to keep under budget wood you go for the 30D?

[rutty]

Well, for £699 you can buy the Canon 40D - it's the replacement for the 30D and looks really good value.

Considering I bought my 400D for just under £500 less than a year ago I'm quite jealous.

Still, that's body only, but you can get a half-decent lens for less than £100 to go with that, or go with one of the bundles. This is the one I'd go for now if it was me.

Thank you Mr Rutt sir but with a lens that may stretch the budget a little. So to keep under budget wood you go for the 30D?

I would, yes. You should be able to get a really good body/lens combination for that. The 30D would have been my next upgrade step, but I suppose I'll wait until the 40D gets a bit cheaper.

Thank you Mr Rutt sir but with a lens that may stretch the budget a little. So to keep under budget wood you go for the 30D?

[Curry]

So do you think This Package wood be enough to get me started then?

[rutty]

So do you think This Package wood be enough to get me started then?

It would be, yes, but you can get a much better lens than that. The kit lens is OK, but if you can stretch to £700 I would consider getting the body only and a better lens.

I have my old kit lens here (similar to that one) and I don't use it any more. You can have it for a small fee if you like, but I think you'd be better spending £150 on something decent.

Still, there are better people to answer these questions than me - I've only been using Canon stuff for a ten months or so.

[samhs]

30D - absolutely, I can totally recommend it. Much nice body shape than the 400D too - properly man-sized. I feel slightly jealous of 40D owners, but have no plans to upgrade at this time.

The kit lens is not high quality tbh. You'd be best off going for a decent lens and getting body only as Rutty says. I'm currently looking for a Canon 24-105mm L IS - about £500 on ebay. Also recommended 28-85mm Canon EF-S - circa £250 on ebay I think. I've just bought a prime lens made by Sigma, on SL's recommendation, instead of a nifty fifty (Canon 50mm 1.8 - available @ about £60 and a good bang/buck ratio) - my Sigma was less than £200 and goes to F/1.4 - provisional results seem very very good, but obviously no zoom.

HTH in some way

Sam

[Jeewhizz]

If you buy from jessops, you can get 3% cashback via quidco - so saving about £20ish

[Curry]

Ok, decision made on the body, not 100% sure what to do about the lens but I now have all the info I need.

Thanks people.

[slaughteredlamb]

First things first.

What do you need the camera to do i.e. what kind of photos are you taking and for what purpose?

If it's 'family' photos i.e. days outs and is primarily going to be a replacement for a point & shoot but one that gives you greater creative control than I really wouldnt be looking at the likes of the 30D/40D. The 400D was designed to fit this role and more and it does it in spades and at £390 (body only) it is truly exceptional value for money.

The only real reasons to not buy the 400D and to instead buy the 30D/40D is:

1. You just don't like the size of the 400D - some people find the camera physically too small which can make holding the camera comfortably difficult.

2. You actually need extra performance and you WILL use it - so many people think they need the extra performance but don't actually use it. The 30D has the following extra performance:

- Higher ISO (3200 compared to 1600 but do you really want to use 3200?)
- Faster shutter speed (1/8000th compared to 1/4000th but do you really need a shutter speed that fast, it would need to be really, really, really bright to use it)
- Faster x-sync speed (1/250th compared to 1/200th)
- Spot Metering (the 400D doesnt have a spot but has a partial metering that's nearly as good as a true spot)
- Faster burst mode (5fps compared to 3fps)
- Larger buffer (30 jpegs or 11 RAW compared to 27 jpegs or 5-10 RAW)

If you don't need these extra performances why pay extra for them?

What too many people do is rush out and buy the latest and greatest camera because they think that by being new it must be better and that it will allow them to take better photos. Firstly that is rubbish, secondly what they then often do is chuck a cheap lens on the front of it which then looses them the extra performance they just paid extra for. For example, if you chuck on a poor lens you'll find that:

You focusing speed will drop
It will almost certainly be a slow lens which will then reduce the maximum shutter speed you could have achieved with a better lens
Being slower you'll end up having to use higher ISO's which will produce noiser photos
With slower shutter speeds you may not be able to fill the buffer anyway or make use of the faster burst rates.

So, basically if you are going to buy a better camera you need to budget for a better lens too in order to really make use of the full capabilities of the camera.

Unless there is a really strong reason not too, I'd buy the 400D and spend the rest of your budget on a really nice lens or two. You will definitely get better results this way compared to spending most of your budget on a 30D/40D and then chucking a cheap lens on it.

For £700 I'd get:

Canon 400D - £390
Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM - £365 (if your budget can stretch to it and depending on the kind of photos you want to take)
or
Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 EX DG £278 (which I think is the better choice if you are only going to have one lens to begin with and would leave enough for a memory card, oh and I own this lens as well).

HTH

[Curry]

I have my old kit lens here (similar to that one) and I don't use it any more. You can have it for a small fee if you like, but I think you'd be better spending £150 on something decent.

Hold that thought for the time being Mr Rutt.

Thank you


Matt

[Curry]

First things first.

What do you need the camera to do i.e. what kind of photos are you taking and for what purpose?

If it's 'family' photos i.e. days outs and is primarily going to be a replacement for a point & shoot but one that gives you greater creative control than I really wouldnt be looking at the likes of the 30D/40D. The 400D was designed to fit this role and more and it does it in spades and at £390 (body only) it is truly exceptional value for money.

The only real reasons to not buy the 400D and to instead buy the 30D/40D is:

1. You just don't like the size of the 400D - some people find the camera physically too small which can make holding the camera comfortably difficult.
<snip>

Thanks Mr SL

You've just made the decision even harder 

All joking aside I think I should have a feel of both of them as I do have quite big hands so physical size has to be a serious consideration. I don't have an issue with spending money on better lens/es but not until the new year and I want the camera to take photos at Xmas.

[slaughteredlamb]

Photos at Christmas will typically mean low light and indoors. Therefore you will really benefit from fast glass and short focal lengths. Therefore if the 400D is the right size for you I'd definitely look at the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8.

The only thing to be aware of with this lens is that if you don't have a speedlite (flashgun) and use the onboard flash the lens hood WILL cast a shadow on the bottom of your subject. There is a solution. Take the lens hood off. This is something that occurs on a number of fast lenses for the simple reason that the pop up flash doesnt pop up high enough and fast glass means a big piece of glass, typically 77mm-82mm in diameter. Put these two things together and add a lens hood that just makes the end of the lens wider and longer and it's no wonder that a shadow is cast.

[samhs]

listen to the SL - he makes sense.

I can't stand the 400, or the 350 before that - too small for my hands, and given I get the odd bit of paying photography work it's worth me having the 30D, but equally if you can deal with the size - I'd agree with the sentiment SL has above.

Sam

[Tony]

Welcome to the money pit!

Any one of the Canons mentioned above will suit your purpose, that depends on your feeling for it and your budget, the main consideration should be your lens(es).

Personally I wouldn't buy an EF-S lens as in the future, if all manufacturers move to full frame sensors which my guess is won't be too far away with Nikon entering the market, they won't be any good for future bodies. Add to that the residual value will drop sharper than a film SLR bought from Jessops.

[rutty]

OK, I'm going to add a contrary opinion about the kit lens. It's OK for beginners. You'll get some great shots out of it, but you'll obviously need to buy more lenses later.

If you've got big hands I would steer clear of the 400D. My hands are quite small so it's fine for me, but the 30D is a little beefier for sure. As a SLR beginner you'll be fine with the 30D + kit lens - for a while. Once you get the hang of it then maybe you'll start to buy the odd proper lens.

It's trickier than you think to get the most from DSLRs though. Consider booking yourself onto some workshops and learn how to do it properly.

Anyway, it's your money

It's a great hobby and well worth investing in.

[samhs]

Relevent article with a good point well made IMO: http://www.peakoverload.com/blog/photography/the-obsession-with-perfection.html tip my hat to you sir.

Sam

[Britman]

Have to agree with what's been said. If your only going to be taking photo's of lets say family events and tourist thing's then the 400D will suit you fine. Then later if you feel you're getting the bug you could upgrade to the 30D or 40D.

If you shop at warehouseexpress.com they have a 'buy now pay 12 months' thing on all digital cameras. You could get a decent kit, use what you have now to pay off most and then finish it off later in the year.

Lenses, well we could talk all night about them, unless you want to get serious you won't need any 'L' series lenses.

Take the Red pill and found out how deep the money pit can go.

More advice here:
www.ephotozine.com
www.thinkcamera.com
www.eos-forums.com

[Jeewhizz]

Please can we stop all this talk! I really really want one!

Jee
Broke

[sickpuppy]

I've got big hands and the 400D feels fine to me.

[Curry]

I ordered my EOS from warehouseexpress.com and I've been informed

Regrettably the quantity received from our supplier today were not sufficient to cover the outstanding orders. Our next delivery is estimated for the week commencing 29 October.

Our sincere apologies for this continued delay and thank you for your patience.

Two weeks from date of order.

I've canceled.

[Britman]

That's poo. Mind it does show how popular there 12 month thing is being.

[Curry]

That's poo. Mind it does show how popular there 12 month thing is being.

No good to me though as I don't do finance. If I don't have the money at the time then I don't buy it (Apart from my house obviously).

I've re-ordered from elsewhere and I'm assured it's leaving today.

Hopefully I'll have it in my hands tomorrow.

[slaughteredlamb]

So which did you go for?

[Curry]

So which did you go for?

I didn't like the feel of the 400d, so I went for the 40d. I bought Rutty's kit lens with the intension of a getting a better one once I've got a better understanding of it all (I'm still a little confused about the lenses tbh)

Clearly the budget went out of the window.

[Britman]

Have a look at here, it's a little video guide to the 40D.

[Jeewhizz]

Would it be bad to point out you can get a new 400D for 350 now... ?

http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1087463

[Mr Anderson]

I didn't like the feel of the 400d, so I went for the 40d. I bought Rutty's kit lens with the intension of a getting a better one once I've got a better understanding of it all (I'm still a little confused about the lenses tbh)

You can get a rebate (up to £135) on a few different Canon lenses until the end of the year, so if you decide what you want before then you may make a fairly big saving: http://canon20thanniversary.onlinerebates.com/howtoclaim.aspx

[Curry]

I didn't like the feel of the 400d, so I went for the 40d. I bought Rutty's kit lens with the intension of a getting a better one once I've got a better understanding of it all (I'm still a little confused about the lenses tbh)

You can get a rebate (up to £135) on a few different Canon lenses until the end of the year, so if you decide what you want before then you may make a fairly big saving: http://canon20thanniversary.onlinerebates.com/howtoclaim.aspx

I am going to claim £50.00 back for the body but I didn't realise I could do that for lenses as well.

Cheers

MTC

[Mr Anderson]

but I didn't realise I could do that for lenses as well.

Aye. Warehouse Express have the rebates fully advertised on the discounted lenses.

It can work out a fair bit too - the f4 L IS USM has a £100 cashback on a £700 starting price